NE. Welcome to New Europe Studios. We have with us today New Democracy’s Member of Parliament from Chios Mr. Kostis Mousouroulis. Mr Mousouroulis welcome to New Europe Studios in Brussels. You know Brussels well enough…
Kostis Mousouroulis: Well enough…
NE: You were for almost two decades here in the European Commission. I dare say that you know Brussels better than us that we are here today. But what brought you this time to Brussels?
KM: Today, I came as a New Democracy representative in the MEP network of the European People’s Party (EPP) and at the same time as the Vice-President of the Committee for European Affair of the Greek Parliament in order to summarize the achievements of the Greek Presidency so far. Today, President Barroso will speak to us and at noon we will meet with the candidate for the European Commission presidency, Jean-Claude Juncker.
NE: As far as I know you will co-chair the meeting with mr Barroso… the Greek Presidency…
KM: I will co-chair with the head of the EPP group, mr Rangel and we host the President. Issues will be discussed, he will express his views in the context of the upcoming EU elections.
NE: What are the issues to be discussed, according to you?
KM: The main issue is the course of action until the upcoming EU elections, a very difficult course since a rise of the anti-European parties is expected, of the extreme and mixed… I could say fossils, you understand what I mean…
NE: Yes.
KM: And of course the danger of a great abstention and especially of the disappointed youth of the EU. These two factors are likely to threaten the European unification process, if we don’t act before the EU elections, and I can tell you a few thoughts on this.
NE: You are right, this is a very important matter for Europe right now. The question is, before we discuss what can be done since there is not much time left until the election, what brought us to this point? What created this situation?
KM: Look, the Greek Prime Minister and President of the Council, Antonis Samaras, talked about a vision of Europe that will provide opportunities to all, show solidarity to all and ask everyone to assume responsibility. This vision has to be shaped into action. This is politics. What is politics? It is the middle ground between vision and result. Today, and this is the big problem and bet, the EU is sometimes presented as a fierce economic union. It is necessary that the European theories become actions. Because if they don’t turn into action, they will be frowned upon both in theory and in action. Europe is not Eurovision, it is a union of people that has to reaffirm every moment the purpose for which it was created. And this is stability, peace, security, justice, democracy, prosperity.
NE: However, we see that lately, and especially, since the economic crisis, that affected Greece the most, occurred, that there is big difference… a separating line between north and south has been created in the EU. Can this be averted in any way?
KM: Let’s not stick to the geographical segregation, since this doesn’t exist. It is a segregation based on structural characteristics. For example, we can include Ireland in the ‘south’ that geographically belongs to the north. It is true that the economic unification cannot function as long as economies are different in terms of structural characteristics. Consequently, the unification attempt needs political union and much work on these structural characteristics. It is clear that the common currency has offered everything it could, the same applies to fiscal adjustment, the one-sided austerity, one might say. Now it is necessary to shift to a different situation, in an era where the difficulty to create jobs will not be surpassed by measures such as the Compact for Growth and Jobs, that may alleviate the situation but are basically like an aspirin in the deep structural crisis that Europe and especially our country face. (Greece) has to show the biggest fiscal adjustment in the shortest period of time. However, it resulted in a huge loss of GDP in a peaceful time…
NE: That has never happened before…
KM: … that has never happened before and cannot be compared with any other Member State. I can surely say that Greece now faces the future with optimism. It has left behind the big risk that faced two years ago. It has regained financial and political credibility and creditworthiness that I believe will be proved…
NE: … that will be proved with the new report…
KM: … in a few days. However, it also has left behind open wounds and especially for young people. We have to work on this and we do, activating all the available tools and of course by joining the European institution to support this population that hasn’t lost hope but is disappointed; and we have to convince them that Europe is the solution.
NE: This means that the solution, let’s say for the problem of unemployment and the huge social problems that Greece and other countries face; taking measures at a Member States level is not enough, actions are needed at a European level as well. You know the EU very well, you speak with your EPP colleagues. Do you see any such disposition? Any intention?
KM: I can say that us Greeks, we have to solve our own problems, we don’t always have to wait for a ‘deus ex machina’ or a fairytale hero with a magic wand that will help us find our lost prosperity and dignity. These belong to the sphere of imagination and only swindlers promise these things. So, the first thing is what we do in our country but the second is what our country does in Europe, what Europe does for our country. I am an optimist. I believe that after the next elections, the European landscape will change. Social solidarity will be placed in the centre of policies, for sure. There are talks about programmes for convergence and competitiveness in the framework of the communal budget, but in addition to the financial support provided through ESPA, the National Strategic Reference Framework. And I believe that if European citizens make a correct choice in the next EU elections and elect especially in the European Parliament that represents the citizens –the Council represents the governments- everything will be good.
NE: The new European Parliament that will be elected has enhanced responsibilities based on the Lisbon Treaty, so it has to play an even more important role, isn’t that so?
KM: The European Parliament can stop policies, start policies, amend budgets. I remember the work of George Papastamkos -a beloved friend whose health I hope gets better- who worked really hard to strengthen the agricultural sector in small islands, through an amendment of the regulatory framework. He eventually succeeded in gaining additional financial support. The European Parliament, based on the Lisbon Treaty, has a say in about 85 sectors that deal with our everyday lives from the simplest to the most complex matter. For this reason, I believe that the representation has to be strong. We need people that know, can and want. Because there is a chance they know but don’t want…
NE: This is also this case and vice versa of course… Do you think that an MEP has to have previous experience in a national parliament before he comes to the European Parliament?
KM: I will speak from the heart and, as I had previously told friends and colleagues here in the European Commission, Europe would have been much better if some people could follow an inverse course compared with me. I started as a ‘eurocrat’ let’s say, then I entered the middle level of public administration as general secretary, then I became elected as deputy in Chios -my compatriots made me the honour to elect me as their representative. I was elected alderman in Chios and I experienced the local government, I remind you that subsidiary is eligible for the first degree…
NE: This plays a huge role of course.
KM: And then I became Minister of Mercantile Marine and Island Policy of Greece, for which I am thankful to the New Democracy president who gave me the chance to use all this experience. If this inverse course was feasible to many others, either at an institutional level as for the example in the European Commission, or at the Parliament or even the Council, this would be something very positive for Europe. I told you before that we will win the bet only if theories become actions.
NE: This is it. How they will turn into actions… exactly.
KM: If they don’t turn into actions, there will be neither theory nor action any more.
NE: This is at a theoretical level but I hear it every day here in Brussels, I am sure you would have heard it as well; many believe that the EU needs a new treaty in order to move forward. What is your opinion? Is the Lisbon Treaty not enough anymore?
KM: Look, I think that the federalization is a one way street. Today we have the European Parliament that is the most federal instrument of Europe. Political unification is on its way and we move towards a banking union. I don’t know if we will move either governmentally or otherwise to amend the treaties. But what is important is all these (measures) established ripen, to see what works and what not and then to discuss whether a new legal framework is needed o support the common course of the people of Europe.
NE: In two months the EU elections will take place. In Greece and in other countries as well, the matters discussed before the elections which influence citizens’ vote are not necessarily connected with the EU; they are often part of the inner political play. And of course a significant number of eligible voters abstain, they are not interested. What can bring people to vote and make their choice based on the significance those who will represent them to the European Parliament have to their lives?
KM: Our fellow citizens, all Greeks, identify themselves with the course of Greece in Europe. This is evident in all polls. Despite the objections, the difficulties, the doubts, about whether Europe and the mechanisms established can face the problems, this is evident. In the upcoming elections, we don’t vote for a government change, a change in the inner political life of the country. This is the first message we have to give to the people. This will happen in the national elections. Then the Greek people will decide who believe can face the difficulties best. Now we vote to send representatives for 5 years to the EU. These 5 years many things are going to happen so voters have to understand this, realizing the vital role the European Parliament will play, and to support and vote massively. In addition, the vote should not be a protest vote. You know, us Greeks, often vote against and not in favour of someone and the governments…
NE: Yes, the vote is negative, yes…
KM: Here the vote has to be positive. It is like shooting our leg. If we want to protest for the situation in Europe in general and in our country, we will make a mistake, we will turn against ourselves. So it is important that voters choose a political group based on the candidates. You know sometimes communication transcends essence. This is a small trap…
NE: What do you mean?
KM: I mean, sometimes we choose (a candidate) based on popularity…
NE: Yes. Whoever is more recognizable.
KM: Yes. Whoever is more recognizable. In this case… I’m not saying that these people, politicians or not, don’t have political value but voters should devote a little bit more time to judge, compare and then decide.
NE: Do you think that right now in Greece, since there is much tension as you know very well, a great part of society faces very serious problems, people are angry, facing a dead end… Are those people in a position to act in composure and do what you said?
KM: This is a very difficult question. Nowadays, Greek citizens are hostile towards the political system and politics in general. It is difficult for them to make a distinction and this is understandable. For this reason, they tar everyone with the same brush. I believe that if we are able –and I think we can, we proved it in the past- to keep calm and understand that our country, Greece is almost at the end of the tunnel of recession, of course it has the problem of unemployment…
NE: Yes.
KM: Nobody says that this isn’t so. But it is almost out of the recession tunnel so the coming years will be all about recovery and rehabilitation of normal life in our country, (Greek citizens) will be able to decide based on the right criteria.
NE: What you mentioned, that (Greece) is coming out of the recession and the next period will be about recovery, tackling unemployment etc. Mr Schäuble mentioned this a few days ago. This is something that can’t happen without Europe, I mean Greece is not able to make this leap forward, to make a new start without Europe’s help. Do you think that, at this moment, with the given balance in Europe -both here in Brussels and in the Member States, some of which have more of a say, as Germany has- this will happen? Will there be a European… and to what extent MEPs are able to influence this course?
KM: I will tell you. I believe that Germany is the country that benefited the most from the common currency and the internal market. Consequently, it has more responsibility towards Europe -not only Germany but all countries that had the chance to benefit both from the common currency and the internal market. Only a little solidarity has been shown, compared to this benefit. So, first and foremost, the countries that are in charge of the European mechanism should assume more responsibilities with respect to solidarity. Other countries, like ours, have already been responsible –I told you this before, and the Prime Minister said it as well, about the vision of Europe which is very important, I repeat, that will provide opportunities and solidarity to all, but will also ask for everyone to assume responsibility. We assumed responsibility at a big cost. So, now Europe has to speak and I think it will, since we all know that collective good will guarantee individual benefit and good…
NE: Of course. Can MEPs play a significant role in this?
KM: Of course. Besides their institutional role and the power they have in the European Parliament by the Lisbon Treaty either in the committees or in the context of the inter-parliamentary cooperation with other parliaments, MEPs are conduits for the transmission of the European message to the European citizens. This is a two-way relationship. An MEP that returns to his country speaks with the citizens, with the economic, political and developmental environment of his country. In the European Parliament, he reports concerns, takes responsibilities and as I said before, he corrects, launches or stops something and this is his significant role, this relationship, this transfer… often this has to do with feelings… messages’ transfer to and from the countries that is at Europe’s benefit is the colour in the painting.
NE: I hope in the upcoming elections voters follow reason and not feeling. Thank you for being with us mr Mousouroulis. Thank you.
KM: I thank you too.
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