D. KAMBOURAKIS: On the other end of the line, we have Minister of Foreign Affairs Giorgos Katrougalos. Good morning to you Mr Katrougalos. Thank you very much. G. KATROUGALOS: Good morning. Wishing you a good week. Thank you. D. KAMBOURAKIS: Here we are discussing about Kastellorizo. Please tell us, because I see the headlines here, there is a general inquietude with this thing with the Turks. What is going to happen now? Are you worried? G. KATROUGALOS: Listen, we must always remain alert with the difficult neighbour that we have, but no reason exists for fear. At the moment, Turkey does not seek a heated incident in the Aegean. But it is true that, as tension mounts with its continued provocative actions, we must also take the necessary measures and, for this reason, a heated incident may result. It is precisely for this reason that we are proceeding with confidence-building measures, practically in other words, through discussion with the other side, not in order to solve our problems, but as to how we will avoid this mounting of tension leading to something we don’t want. D. KAMBOURAKIS: Yes, but here I read, in “Ethnos” for example, which is the top story, but elsewhere too, that you, as the Minister of Foreign Affairs, as well as Mr Apostolakis, are in constant contact with the Americans and the Europeans also. In other words, you too are taking action. You are trying. G. KATROUGALOS: But of course, when we speak of being alert, we don’t simply mean saying it out loud, we mean that we take every necessary diplomatic action so that the message is clear to the other side, that it shouldn’t even think about it. Because you know, I also read Mr Simitis’ article. There is a significant difference today compared with the Imia period: this difference is due to the upgraded diplomatic standing that our country enjoys, as well as Turkey's marked isolation. Let me remind you that the day following the events with Imia, the announcement by the European Council was basically an announcement of perhaps equal distance, “control yourselves.” Now, in an arena that is completely different for us, where Turkey's actions are being denounced as illegal... D. KAMBOURAKIS: As regards Cyprus, Minister, I don’t know. G. KATROUGALOS: No, Mr Kambourakis, look at March 2018, it was about Turkey’s overall behaviour in the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean. And why is this important? Not only as strengthening of our country’s deterrent force; because deterrence does not just mean the Armed Forces, it has to do also with the country’s diplomatic relations. Mainly because Turkey's efforts are not geared towards waging war, but towards creating accomplished facts. D. KAMBOURAKIS: They should sit down around a table. G. KATROUGALOS: Exactly. But when these actions are denounced by everybody as illegal, they do not achieve the goal they seek to achieve; they achieve precisely the opposite. Because when you are accused of illegal behaviour, that you are carrying out provocative actions, that you are a destabilising factor in the region, your claims don’t make a difference. On the contrary, you appear to be the one to have been ostracised. D. KAMBOURAKIS: Indeed. I hope so. S. KASIMI: So, Minister, the prospect of a new crisis between Greece and Turkey, you attribute this prospect to a potential accident and not to a heated incident? G. KATROUGALOS: It depends what one means with the term “crisis.” Already, Turkey’s provocative actions in Cyprus’ EEZ create conditions of great tension. One could even call it a crisis. So, my answer to your question had to do with whether this political crisis which is faced by, and which results in damage to, Turkey, which does not result in gains, whether this could develop into something worse. I am therefore telling you that I personally don't see the prospect for a heated incident, because this is not included in the other side’s intentions. D. KAMBOURAKIS: Do you think that this is their strategy at the moment? G. KATROUGALOS: War has never been their strategy. Turkey is well aware that the scenario does not exist for a war in which it would be victorious in the Aegean. War is a lost cause for both sides. We never seek something like this. We are a peace-loving power. And they too understand the huge cost this would have. D. KAMBOURAKIS: Logically this is the way things are. Let’s hope so. You are optimistic about things. Do you know why, Minister? Because presently most people don’t understand about the diplomatic capital our country has, whether it is upgraded or not. But there is a type of, let me not refer to it as a defeatist attitude, but a certain pessimism that has taken hold, which says “for 8 years, 10 years now, with the economic crisis, we have not bought weapons, we did not buy aeroplanes, we wanted to buy ships but we did not do so.” And on the other hand, Turkey is continuously buying arms. In the past we would say, “It isn’t likely for a Turk to be able to take one of our islands.” Now people aren’t saying this. In other words, their morale is... S. KASIMI: There is a certain insecurity, you mean... G. KATROUGALOS: First of all, we must be aware, despite all this - the fiscal crisis - our Armed Forces continue to possess significant deterring power. The power that the Armed Forces should have in a country such as Greece. And clearly, the average person does not follow everything that goes on as regards Diplomacy. But this too is especially significant. Do you remember an old saying which says: “How many divisions does the Pope command?” Meaning that it is not so important... D. KAMBOURAKIS: He rules the world, but he doesn’t even have one soldier, isn’t it so? G. KATROUGALOS: Yes, exactly. But it isn’t so. Because the decisions that are made on a political and diplomatic level affect the economy. And, at the moment, the basic source of power for a country is its economy; how strong it is, how satisfied its citizens feel from the progress of this economy. So, Turkey is not in a position now to jeopardise its very vulnerable economy, with the lira which has dropped by 30%, with inflation at 20%, and having dipped into a recession this quarter. Therefore, I say that taking the situation into account, evaluating that which the average person who does not follow diplomatic affairs truly is unable to understand, but which is indeed applicable, that never before has our country been in such an enhanced diplomatic position, both among its friends, as well as on the international scene in general. So, I say that, without becoming complacent, we should not be afraid.
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