JOURNALIST: As we have already announced, today on our programme we have the pleasure of welcoming the Alternate Minister of Foreign Affairs, Giorgos Katrougalos. Let us wish him good morning. Let us also thank him, because in New York where he is at the moment, the clock is 7 hours behind ours. It's 2.30 in the morning. We would like therefore to thank him again for his time, even though it is quite late. G. KATROUGALOS: I consider it my duty to keep you informed and it is always a pleasure to speak with you. Good morning to you and your listeners. JOURNALIST: It is also a great pleasure for us Minister. Today you will meet Matthew Nimetz, a few days after the US diplomat used his powers of mediation with the Zaev Government, and after you appeal the latter to respect the spirit and the letter of the Prespa Agreement. Could you tell us a few words on the subject and whether you intend to ask Mr Nimetz to intervene anew before Zaev due to his recent declarations on the “Macedonian language”. G. KATROUGALOS: You have also heard it yesterday from a more experienced person. The Prime Minister himself has insisted that we are evidently “committed” to introducing the Agreement, precisely because we believe that it is mutually beneficial to both countries. This, however, presupposes absolute respect for the spirit and the letter of this agreement, and this is something we are also expecting from the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. In any case, this constitutional revision is coming to a close. So it will not be long now before we see if such similar commitment exists from the other side. I am hopeful that its existence will become apparent. JOURNALIST: Are you saying we are not even certain about this, Minister? Can we speak of a commitment with these... G. KATROUGALOS: I do not wish to give the impression that there is any doubt at all. There were, of course, some unfortunate statements that we hope will not be repeated. JOURNALIST: But these unfortunate statements have justified the objections of many people here in our country. Do you think that if it passes ... G. KATROUGALOS: I would say, on the contrary, that they gave us the opportunity to see again what the Prespa Agreement says, because that is what is of interest to us. Scripta manent, the writings speak for themselves. And I think that as a positive aspect we cannot just retain the fact these statements were retrospectively explained, thereby leaving no room for doubt as to what the agreement says, but above all they made us realise that with the Prespa Agreement any irredentist claim from the other side has effectively come to an end, or that the potential for interference in our domestic affairs has been eliminated. That is what the agreement says. And precisely because this is what the agreement says, statements uttered subsequently restored the truth as it stands. JOURNALIST: Will the Agreement pass the Greek Parliament Minister? G. KATROUGALOS: I do not have the slightest doubt about this. And I can say that the latest comments made by Potami are also encouraging. At some point, the thought also crossed my mind that there was some vacillation on Potami’s part, though I think that the clarifications they gave, which repeated their initial positive stance, should be considered encouraging. JOURNALIST: What about Mr Kammenos, your governmental partner? G. KATROUGALOS: He also absolutely clarified his position. After all, he had set out his objection to the Agreement a long time ago. Yesterday, he indicated that if anything of the sort happens, the ministers of ANEL will withdraw from the government. Yet, he will not agree to a motion of no confidence against the government. I think we have been given clear messages from that side as well. JOURNALIST: Minister, yesterday, in a Plenary session, the Greek Parliament has ratified unanimously the bill to reduce pensions. G. KATROUGALOS: Not to reduce pensions. JOURNALIST: Not to reduce pensions, sorry. Nevertheless, it degenerated into a fierce political confrontation between the Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, and the leader of the main opposition party, Kyriakos Mitsotakis, who, in fact, from what I gathered, has placed on the same weighing scales the pensions and the Macedonian question. By which I mean that he has accused the government of saving the pensions and selling off the province of Macedonia. I would like you to comment on this. G. KATROUGALOS: This was a totally unacceptable declaration because it put on the same plane two entirely different questions. New Democracy, it would seem, as Mr Chatzidakis had moreover said when Commissioner Pierre Moscovici was in Athens, had incorporated in its program the expectation of reduced pensions precisely because the ND program consists in whittling down social welfare benefits. That is why it does not acknowledge this success, which is not merely a success for the government but for all retired people. And so, beyond the general propaganda it has been indulging in for many years, it now slanders our government, by accusing it of slavishness on the national question, allegedly in exchange for the pensions. However, the truth of the matter is, - and I can say this with full knowledge of the facts because I have accompanied the Prime Minister in all its meetings with the European leaders, in my capacity as Minister of European Affairs - that there never was any correlation between these two questions. It is true that the position of our country has been upgraded since the Prespa agreement, but this was by no means a decisive factor, particularly for solving the big problem of the pensions. What happened with the pensions, as we have already explained in the past, is that our European partners have sensed that the blackmailing by the International Monetary Fund - I remind you this because there is a grey zone of propaganda that blurs the waters - one year after the insurance law, one year after the "Katrougalos law", it asked for a cut in the 'personal difference', while according to the insurance law, this personal difference was forever protected. Now we have actually turned back to the provisions of the insurance reform, the so-called “Katrougalos Law", which provided for protection of the difference, and at the same time through the actuarial studies, it was proven that there was no need for it. That the viability of the social security system had been ensured. JOURNALIST: Whatever the case, the government spokesman, Mr D. Tzanakopoulos, said yesterday, on ERT, that Mr Mitsotakis will be required to give explanations at the highest European level about an underlying transaction with respect to the Agreement. G. KATROUGALOS: What he says is obvious, for one cannot make mendacity the flag of one’s policy and believe that this will have no consequence. Obviously, we will ask the European leaders who have knowledge to confirm the matter. Precisely because lies must not be left to direct the political debate. JOURNALIST: Can I ask you how Greek-Albanian relations are being ‘directed’ in inverted commas? After Rama's plan to seize property belonging to Greeks in the Himara region. Could you comment on this? G. KATROUGALOS: We want Greek-Albanian relations to be good and to solve whatever problems we have between us. We look upon Albania's European perspective with favour, but on one condition. That it must respect the neighbouring country and the obligations it has undertaken in view of its European perspective, and obviously that it must respect the rights of our minority. What happened, namely, an interference with the right of property of our people, of our Minority people in Albania, is something that could not be left unanswered. The answer was given in due time, and I think in the way it should by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. And it goes without saying that we shall not be satisfied with words only. We expect that the necessary steps be taken so that the rights of the Minority people are respected and the neighbouring country does not move in a direction that is contrary to its European obligations. JOURNALIST: Can I have your thoughts on the horrible night the city of Strasbourg went through, or on France? G. KATROUGALOS: This shows that we must always take the necessary steps to protect ourselves against the risk of terrorism, but at the same time we must try to maintain the openness of our societies. The enemies of democratic values will have won a great victory, you know, if we were to abandon these values in the wake of their attacks on European soil. JOURNALIST: And to end this interview, next Friday, that is the day after tomorrow, Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, will speak at a large political rally. What can we expect from this event? G. KATROUGALOS: We just want to convey the message that all Greeks should read the Prespa Agreement. The Prime Minister will speak in Thessaloniki. On the other hand, we must realize that our country is ushering in a new era with this important step. An era which begins with the end of memoranda, and proves that Greece, now stronger than ever, with our society standing upright in dignity, is ready to confront the challenges surrounding it, not with fear, but with the determination to become a leading power. That is why in fact I am here in America, so that we can see how all the policies we have followed lately confirm our country as a factor for stability and as a pillar of security in our region. We want this for our own people, but obviously also to ensure peaceful coexistence with all the peoples of our region. JOURNALIST: At the same time, during the Prime Minister's speech at Thessaloniki, there will be also a counter-demonstration. G. KATROUGALOS: Counter-demonstrations, as you may know, are not an expression of democracy, particularly in Thessaloniki, where they bring back sad and dark memories. I am, of course, referring to the assassination of Lambrakis. There should be a real clash of ideas, there should be a healthy competition between opposite political views, but this should never be done in a manner that seeks to completely silence the other voice. So I have no doubt that the Prime Minister's speech will be proven very successful, and those who want to stop his voice from being heard will be disappointed again. JOURNALIST: Minister, I would like to thank you for all the time you gave us. We wish you to rest well and find strength for your work. G. KATROUGALOS: Thank you very much. Good morning to you.
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