[francois hollande bild interview]BILD/Daniel Biskup Germany's leading newspaper, Bild, has published an exclusive interview with French President François Hollande. In partnership with Bild, Business Insider has published an English translation below. _IN HIS OFFICE ON THE FIRST FLOOR OF THE ELYSÉE PALACE, HOLLANDE GAVE HIS FIRST INTERVIEW WITH A GERMAN PUBLICATION SINCE HE TOOK OFFICE IN 2012. HE DISCUSSED THE REFUGEE CRISIS FACING THE EU, THE FRANCE-GERMANY RELATIONSHIP, THE THREAT OF TERROR ACROSS EUROPE AND THE RISE OF FAR-RIGHT POLITICIANS._ BILD: Mr. President, first the debt drama, then the refugees – the EU is obviously facing its biggest crisis since its foundation almost 60 years ago. The tone between many EU-members is more than tense. Are Europe’s golden days over? FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: Were there ever any golden days? Just look at the history of the past 30 years. Our union has faced economic, monetary, and political crises. It also faced enormous challenges. I am thinking of Europe’s enlargement in particular, here. But let’s face it: the stream of refugees has led to tensions and divisions. Terrorism has caused renewed fear and raised countless questions. Plus, it is much more difficult to make a decision with 28 members involved than with 6, 12, or 15, as when François Mitterand and Helmut Kohl were able to discuss between themselves questions concerning the German reunification. But it is still true that Europe can only further develop if France and Germany proceed at the same speed.” BILD: Do the people in Europe still believe in the European dream? In Great Britain, the debate about a Brexit is dominating the news. HOLLANDE: There is much Euroscepticism; not only in Great Britain. For the young generation, the European dream is no longer tangible. My wish is for Great Britain to stay in the EU. That would be in the interests of Great Britain and Europe. But only the British people can decide about their future. Independently of the result of the referendum: I am in favor of a subsequent initiative that provides those countries that stand for a faster and further integration with the respective possibilities. Others, who do not belong to the Eurozone and do not want to join it, have to be fully recognized as EU members. But they must not slow down the further development of the EU. BILD: Tomorrow the German-French government consultations in Metz will start. You have just mentioned the close relationship between France and Germany. It always used to be considered as the “engine of European unity.” Is the impression correct that the engine is sputtering? HOLLANDE: No! We have shown that, like our predecessors, we are aware of our responsibility. We jointly tackled the Euro crisis and have successfully overcome it. We jointly determined the framework for the European budget until 2020. We jointly worked on Greece staying in the Eurozone. And also now, in the refugee crisis, Ms. Merkel and I defended the same position, which, in the end, made the agreement with Turkey possible. These crises have brought us closer together on a personal level, despite the fact that we do not always share the same political views. In the Normandy format, we have jointly worked on putting an end to the hostilities in Ukraine. BILD: You just mentioned the Ukraine crisis. Back then, the French President and the German Chancellor were very tight. In the refugee crisis, however, it looked as though Angela Merkel would abandon France. Do you feel ignored by the German government? HOLLANDE: With respect to Ukraine, we would not have been successful without each other. We spent much time searching for a solution and working on the subsequent implementation of the Minsk Agreements. With respect to the refugees, we worked on a European solution together. But our countries were in different positions: Germany accepted hundreds of thousands of refugees and is thereby showing its great generosity. However, for both Germany and France, this could not have happened outside of European rules, i.e. Schengen. So I am very much aware of what solving this question meant for Germany. For France, the most important aim was to regain the complete control over the EU’s external borders. I saw the chancellor on Friday, 4 March. On Sunday, she met with the Turkish Prime Minister Davutoglu. On Monday, she informed me about it. This approach facilitated the agreement in Brussels ten days later. I ensured that France made meaningful contributions with respect to refugee rights, visa checks for Turkey, potential visa liberalizations for Turkey and that a new chapter of negotiations was opened. BILD: Since the Brussels pact, the number of refugees and migrants who want to come to Europe has significantly declined. Is the worst now over? HOLLANDE: We have returned to the Schengen and Dublin rules again. They were no longer applied for a couple of months, which led certain countries to take unilateral measures. Now we have to implement the European Council’s recommendations and, first of all, assist Greece. Given a reality that concerns us all, we must not leave Greece alone with this situation. Additionally, France and Germany will each sent 300 judges, experts and asylum law specialists. Then we can deal with the individual cases locally and make the agreement with Turkey work in practice. Together, we wanted to set a good example there. [REFUGEE]BILD/DANIEL BISKUP BILD: The pact with Turkey depends on the EU states’ willingness to fulfill their part of the agreement, i.e. to resettle several thousands of refugees from Turkey to the EU. Are you optimistic that this will work? HOLLANDE: The plan is as follows: any illegal refugee has to be returned from Greece to Turkey. With Frontex, Europe ensures that these return journeys take place under dignified conditions. The rules for asylum-seekers have to be respected, as help organizations are rightly demanding from us. In order to prevent a refugee influx from Turkey to Greece, in which people are risking their lives, we decided to accept Syrians to Europe who are currently living in camps in Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan. However, this mechanism for distributing refugees can only work if a proper control of the EU’s external borders is guaranteed. BILD: How many refugees will France take in? HOLLANDE: We have agreed to accept 30,000 Syrian or Iraqi refugees over the next two years. I will keep my word. However, there are also migrants who come to France by other means. In France, the number of asylum-seekers has risen to approximately 80,000 people who we accepted in 2015. BILD: Do you agree that the German welcome culture – the politics of open borders – has lured the refugees to Europe in the first place? HOLLANDE: This stream of refugees had already started in June 2015, that is, long before Germany opened the borders. Let us remind ourselves of how emotionally laden the public opinion was in September, when the body of the boy Aylan Kurdi was found on a beach. The causes of these dramas are the situation in Syria, the regime’s bomb attacks, and the atrocities committed by Daesh, the so-called ISIS. Then there are also those people who hoped to lead a better life in Europe. By this, I mean migrants from Afghanistan, Pakistan, or regions that are even further away. It was therefore absolutely necessary to end this massive influx, while respecting the right of asylum. If Europe had not distinguished between economic migrants and those who need international solidarity, it would have disgraced itself. It was important to convey that message. And this is exactly what the European Council did by returning to the Schengen rules – that is, to registering and reviewing every single person arriving at our external borders. BILD: Germany accepted more than one million refugees, the big country of France only 30,000. Is that just, is that European solidarity? HOLLANDE: I already told you that we took in many more migrants and refugees in 2015 than that. We also have to care for the people from Sudan, Eritrea, and Afghanistan who want to travel to Great Britain, but have no right to enter. We try to keep these people here and to convince them to stay and we have opened reception centers all over France. However, against all reason, they prefer to keep waiting and risk their lives in trying to reach England by any means. I am aware of Germany’s efforts and welcome the solidarity that your country is displaying. Germany will have to provide extensive means for taking the refugees in and for integrating them. However, it is clear that what happened in 2015 must not be repeated in 2016. BILD: What exactly does that mean? [FRANCOIS HOLLANDE BILD INTERVIEW]BILD/DANIEL BISKUPHOLLANDE: The answer can only be a European one. Everything else would mean the end of Schengen and a return to national borders – a historical step backwards. This danger was quite real until a few days ago. Given the pressure, several countries had already made decisions in this vein. This would have meant the end of the European Union as France and Germany imagine it, that is, the end of joint responsibility and solidarity. There are political forces everywhere that call Schengen into question and play with people’s fears. We must not provide a breeding ground for these forces. Although I regret that the European Union acted too late, in the end it managed to find a global and unanimous answer. BILD: Because of the deal with Turkey, Europe places its fate into the hands of President Erdogan, who let ISIS fighters leave for Syria, has bombed Kurds and tramples on human rights. Is Europe morally bankrupt to let Turkey do the “dirty work” for the EU, as Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel has called it? HOLLANDE: “Turkey has undertaken considerable efforts over the past few months. It has taken in 2.5 million Syrian refugees. It has work for some of them. The children are going to school, and mostly humane accommodation was created. Not helping Turkey would mean to, in the end, give up on these refugees. This would not be in Europe’s interest, nor would it be in those people’s interest who should be able to return to their families and home countries if peace is reestablished. The agreement with Turkey is based on very clear conditions: for Turkish citizens to be exempted from short-term visa requirements, Turkey must fulfill 72 criteria. Also, the three billion euros will only be transferred to Turkey if there are concrete projects for the refugees – we will monitor this. We will also be vigilant as to whether Turkey fights against traffickers and illegal trade. Finally, we will never refrain from addressing the issues of human rights, the freedom of the press, and the protection of minorities. BILD: As soon as there was some relief in the refugee crisis, Islamist terror struck back in full brutality. Do we people in Europe have to get used to never living in safety again? HOLLANDE: The world has to understand that the terror is present. Everywhere. After Paris, it was Copenhagen, then Paris again, then Brussels. I have also not forgotten Bamako in Mali, Ouagadougou, Abidjan, or Pakistan – where there was a bloodbath on Easter Monday, and Christians were attacked. The USA are also not spared, think of San Bernardino. Canada was attacked two years ago … The source of terror is always the same – Islamist barbary, which is not identical with Islam! Our conclusion must be: Europe cannot wait for others to solve the problems for us. Europe has to guarantee its defense and organize its fight against terrorism better than before. BILD: What would a better fight against terrorism look like? HOLLANDE: First, dangerous persons have to be identified and centrally registered. Then we also need systematic controls of Europe’s external borders, the exchange of flight passenger data, and we must fight against gun trafficking and money laundering. But we have to do more than that. In the fight against terror, we must take a step forward. The defense of Europe has the highest priority now. I am grateful to Germany for the military support in Mali and also in Syria. I know that this was a very difficult decision, because, in a way, it meant a change of its politics. However, I should point this out immediately: both of our countries will have to be willing to significantly increase their defense budgets. We will have to carry out interventions outside of Europe. We should not rely on other powers to free us from terrorism – not even on our friends. [Paris attacks vigil]BILD/Daniel Biskup BILD: As the President, you had to experience two gruesome attacks within a single year – what does that mean for you personally? HOLLANDE: First of all, it was a shock. A terrible shock, horrible images, destroyed families. I knew the Charlie Hebdo journalists personally. The police officers who were so maliciously murdered were representatives of the authority of the state. The attack on the kosher supermarket (“Hyper Cacher”) shows us that the plague of antisemitism, of hatred for Jews, has still not disappeared. Then came the attacks of 13 November. I was sitting next to Foreign Minister Steinmeier in the stadium. I learned about the massacres that were committed in the heart of Paris just as the bombs exploded. There had never been such a murderous attack in France before. It was a shock. But also a challenge. Are we scared? Do we retreat? Or do we manage to be stronger together in times of need? Look at this photo over there _(he points to the window sill behind his desk.) _It shows the solidarity march in Paris, on 11 January 2015. Angela Merkel is in the front row, next to me, with more than 40 heads of state and government. The most important thing is European solidarity. In order to defend our values, our freedom and – with all legal means – our security. BILD: The attackers of Paris and Brussels were also “home-grown terrorists”; they had French and Belgian roots. Why do people attack the free society in which they grew up in such a radical and brutal way? HOLLANDE: That is doubtlessly the most difficult and most awful question. To know that it was Frenchmen, born in France, who committed these deeds. They grew up in our cities, went to our schools, and then they rapidly turned from petty criminals into radicals – and terrorist attackers. It is important to fight against ghettos and discrimination more comprehensively and by further means. We have to fight against the danger of radicalization, on the internet, in mosques, or in public places. This danger concerns us all. Muslim families are more affected, but there also many converts. 2,000 Frenchmen went to Syria or are still there to fight in the jihad. Approximately a third of them are young girls and minors. We have to be vigilant regarding their recruitment, indoctrination, and seduction BILD: This plan to deprive terrorists of their citizenship, which was abandoned last week: did you really think that would help? HOLLANDE: It was a symbol. How can we accept that Frenchmen kill other Frenchmen, because they are Frenchmen? However, we cannot fight terrorism by revoking someone’s citizenship. But we have to address the sources of radicalization and hate by coordinating our politics Europe-wide and arresting the people who want to attack us. The members of the group that committed the attacks in Paris and Brussels came from various European countries. One accomplice was recently caught in Italy, others in the Netherlands. Terrorists know no borders. The war against terrorism can therefore not be led and won from a single country. BILD: Terrorists know no borders. The national security agencies in their Europe-wide exchange of information, unfortunately, do. How is it possible that there is still no central European data base of dangerous persons? HOLLANDE: Because we take too long. And that is intolerable. BILD: Quite too long. [FRANCOIS HOLLANDE BILD INTERVIEW]BILD/DANIEL BISKUPHOLLANDE: This is Europe’s biggest problem. Europe takes too long to make decisions. In the end, Europe always manages to find solutions – be it with respect to free capital transfers, the banking crisis, the state debts crisis, the refugee crisis, or the fight against terrorism. But we are paying an increasingly high price for the time that was lost. What follows from this? We must act faster! Then we will be more efficient and will be able to convince the people of Europe that they are actually being protected. BILD: The refugee crisis, Islamist terror – these are also reasons why the extreme and populist right gains support all over Europe. You have extensive experiences with the Front National. What advice would you give Angela Merkel for dealing with the AfD? HOLLANDE: France’s experience in this context is a sad one. There have been right-winged extremists here for 30 years. They crossed the threshold of 10 percent in 1984. Back then we thought that this is a protest movement that will not last. In 2002, Jean-Marie Le Pen entered the second round of the presidential elections. Some people thought that this has to do with him as a person. Now his daughter and granddaughter are pressing ahead with the movement he established. Marine Le Pen is trying her best to make the Front National appear harmless in France. But in the European Parliament, in Angela Merkel’s and my presence, she returns to the old talk of a German-French rivalry. She calls for a return to national borders and for leaving the Euro – even leaving the European Union. What all extreme right-wingers have in common is fear. Fear of the other, fear of Europe, fear of globalization. BILD: And what is your advice? HOLLANDE: I do not want to give advice. What I know is that both downplaying the extreme right and demonizing it are bad reactions. We have to denounce their false solutions, expose the deceptive suggestions, and show that voting for them does not only contradicts our values, but also our interests. We can only win by providing answers to the people who expect the EU to protect them. BILD: Europe takes long – but so does France, for example with respect to economic and labor market reforms. Why are the French struggling so hard to accept these reforms? HOLLANDE: For four years now, one reform in France was followed by the next. The budget deficit was lowered even beyond the demands of the European Commission. The pension system is, more or less, balanced again. We have improved our competitiveness and corporate profits have reached the same level as before the crisis again, without damaging private households’ spending power. The territorial reform was successful. Concerning the labor market, a first stage of modernization was reached in 2015. It was strengthened by the Macron Law. A dialogue is taking place between the social partners about the next step. The French, and young people in particular, who often have to live in uncertainty, want safety for their future. It is now up to us to convince them that flexibility and safety can go hand in hand in order to create more permanent jobs. BILD: One last question: will you run again as president next year? HOLLANDE: _(laughs)_ Thank you for asking, but please allow me to give the answer to that question to the French press in due course. NOW WATCH: Ancient Romans had perfect teeth because their diets were low in one substance
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